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Author Topic: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex  (Read 6112 times)

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Mulreay

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Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« on: September 26, 2012, 02:46:44 PM »
Rented computers from seven different companies secretly took photographs of their users, US authorities have said.

The companies used software made by US company Designerware which could track key strokes and other personal data.

The software, called PC Rental Agent, captured people engaging in "intimate acts", including sex.

The settlement means the companies are banned from using the software which invaded the users' privacy.

However, some software - such as location tracking - could still be used as long as the companies involved made it explicitly clear to the users.

It is believed that PC Rental Agent has been installed in approximately 420,000 computers worldwide.

Full story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19726954
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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 01:01:53 AM »
Can't say I wouldn't have done the same.  I find it interesting that so many people apparently perform sex acts in front of their computer, especially one that they're renting.  I'm more of the paranoid type and I usually assume someone is watching if I'm out of my element.
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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 02:46:42 AM »
Can't say I wouldn't have done the same.  I find it interesting that so many people apparently perform sex acts in front of their computer, especially one that they're renting.  I'm more of the paranoid type and I usually assume someone is watching if I'm out of my element.

Honestly, that's sick. I wish there was more of a sense of responsibility among those who are good with technology. Voyeurism is a huge problem in our industry and most computer shops from a-z will pile through somebody's files (especially if they see them as attractive). At many computer repair shops, finding dirt on their clients is like a sport.

Unfortunately in our industry, there is such a lax sense of ethics that we see these kinds of stories all the time. Nobody holds each other accountable, many of these same shops that end up in these investigations continue to stay open. It should be the responsibility of everybody in the business to shame sickos like this into bankruptcy.
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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 03:13:34 AM »
most computer shops from a-z will pile through somebody's files (especially if they see them as attractive). At many computer repair shops, finding dirt on their clients is like a sport.

It can be a good thing: the British former pop star Paul Gadd (stage name "Gary Glitter") was prosecuted after staff at PC World found indecent images of children on a laptop he had returned to them for repair. If this had not happened he would have remained undetected as a dangerous paedophile, as he turned out to be.

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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2012, 10:12:57 PM »
So the police should just raid people's houses at random and postal workers should go through people's mail just to check nothing dodgy is going on there? Privacy is an integral part of having a free society. You'd probably have to go through thousands of people's files before happening on kiddy porn. Most child pornography viewers and producers get caught on their own without the assistance of a computer tech. It's one thing to happen across child porn and report it to authorities, it's a completely different thing to systematically go through people's files and then go "Oh hey, look, see I'm actually the good guy here because even though I might have been looking at my previous client's tax forms and *censored* vacation pics, I just might have happened upon evidence of a crime this one time".

Saying there's a benefit to flagrantly and continually violating people's privacy is like saying, "look, I know robbing your house may have not been the nicest thing to do but I mean, what would happen if I hadn't told you about the poor pipe installation I found? I mean, you would have had a catastrophic leak!"


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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2012, 08:34:34 PM »
Looks like this is a bigger operation by the FTC then just cracking down on "rouge" rental suppliers.

 FTC Cracks Down on Fake Tech Support Websites

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The scam was simple: Five of the six scammers used telemarketing calls while the sixth used Google ads to draw in unsuspecting customers - often by telling them they worked for legitimate firms like Dell, Microsoft, or McAfee.

Google is going to have it's own law force before long. You know they are helping the FTC in a major way. Who else could? Maybe something like The White House Police Force? They have access and control over some very sensitive data... why not? (I'm not sure if that is sarcasm or not  ??? )

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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2012, 11:02:05 PM »
So the police should just raid people's houses at random and postal workers should go through people's mail just to check nothing dodgy is going on there?
This is a strawman argument and you know it. Nobody ever said this.

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Privacy is an integral part of having a free society. You'd probably have to go through thousands of people's files before happening on kiddy porn.
There are two things here. First, there is the fact that the way some of those people store files there is absolutely no need to snoop; sometimes they are sitting, right there on the desktop. I agree that there is an ethical obligation to a persons privacy when you are fixing their machine, but a responsible tech is going to be sifting through files anyway- either they will appear in various logs during a scan, or they will show up in various directories. I know people who "hide" files in C:\windows\System32 because they don't think anybody would look there for their private things. So at that point the question is that if a person or tech finds illegal material in this manner, do they have an obligation to essentially conspire with the perpetrator in the interest of their privacy, or do they have an obligation to report the offense in the interest of society. In my opinion the question essentially answers itself.

It's akin to a person being hired to clean a bathtub having to "respect" a clients privacy when they have to clean lye and blood stains off of a bathtub. While the skilled perpetrators of murders will know to either clean the mess up themselves, so too do the major-league perpetrators of Internet crime know how to clean up their own messes. By that account the only kind of crimes that will be found by techs on peoples computers are going to be from the stupid ones.

I'm not of course arguing that they should be looking around on a computer with the specific purpose of snooping. In fact that is quite reprehensible, since they have a job to do, and more importantly the mickey mouse operations that do this usually just reformat and reinstall windows anyway so they wouldn't be encountering files "by accident" anyway.

In this case, however, we have a rented computer- for all we know, the rental agreement of the computer has information that indicates that all activity will be tracked. It might not say how or when, but if that is in there than it would be downright stupid to do what was indicates. Arguably it's stupid to do that in front of a computer anyway because.. well actually I'm surprised I feel compelled to even think up a reason here.


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Most child pornography viewers and producers get caught on their own without the assistance of a computer tech.
Probably true, but not much of a counterargument. That would be like saying that Most terrorists don't get caught at border crossings, and using that as evidence that the borders of a country should be completely open and unchecked. (But how then would we Canadians keep our moose pelts from crossing South of the Border?)

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Saying there's a benefit to flagrantly and continually violating people's privacy is like saying, "look, I know robbing your house may have not been the nicest thing to do but I mean, what would happen if I hadn't told you about the poor pipe installation I found? I mean, you would have had a catastrophic leak!"

This is not what I think to be an accurate analogy. An analogy would be more akin to a Tenant telling a landlord about a problem, and the landlord comes to fix it while they are away, and then the landlord goes through their stuff and stumbles upon something illegal.

The fact is that nothing has really changed. There are people that are going to snoop through other peoples stuff given the opportunity and the high probability of not getting caught doing so. Arguing that because this is present with Computers that the entire domestic scene has suddenly changed to one that embraces voyeur attitudes is to exercise one's skills in hyperbole. Of course it is morally wrong, but I would argue that it is even more morally wrong to find something while doing that and not report it. When you don't hear about these sorts of  things, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I once caught a landlord randomly coming into my house when I was supposed to be away; what was he going to do? had he done it before? I had no idea. Of course in that situation, I feel it's a bit different from that of a computer tech; techs are given consent to use a person's computer and unless the operation is going to be a quick wipe and reformat some "snooping" into the system is going to be needed, as I mentioned. Of course people going through tax forms or tantalizingly named images are hardly good citizens, but the fact is that most of these occurences are probably found because the person storing the illegal data gave it a obvious name. I can imagine documents like "illegal secret cayman islands account information.doc" or "naked 7yr old and a goat.jpg" and I find it hard to believe  that seeing what those files are out of a greater concern for society constitutes a breach of privacy.
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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2012, 11:27:48 PM »
how can I put this kindly there should be no fighting over this, as it seems if your going to be doing something not legal on a computer system these days, unless it is your own (not saying do it) you have no right to pravicy. The people that own the system have the rights to look at the systems, but it does not take a computer tech to know things are messed up. It comes down to is this a problem that you see going keep happening if you don't report it and to think that you will never get cought well that is the problem. You don't always have to look for something to find something, my point being it is not legal and it is also not their system and my veiew is if they gave me censent to fix their computer if they feel not ok with the idea they can tell me to stop, but I might not be able to fix problem. Even techs through ms do that but if you don't own your system you sign an agreement and the laws state that the ower of the pc has the rights to do things to the system not the renters. If you don't want to have problems don't do it in the first place.
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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2012, 11:30:05 PM »
what does this have to do with fixing computers or helping others besides starting a debate, sounds like we just want a drama thread and no us in this just my thoughts.
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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2012, 01:13:27 AM »
I don't think there's anything wrong with a debate -- these are important questions for anybody who works in or is going to be working in tech. I'd much rather people in our industry have this conversation than not.

I'm sorry if my point came across unclearly -- I'm not saying that we should turn a blind eye if we come across something that shows somebody committing a heinous crime like distributing child porn or cleaning blood out of a bathtub. I don't think many people outside of perhaps pedophiles would argue that we should. Obviously if we find kiddy porn we should report it, that's an open and shut case.

There's a big difference between happening upon some child porn in the normal course of a repair and finding it while going through people's files to find naked pictures, credit card numbers, or anything else you might want. If you happen to be crossing that ethical boundary anyways and you find child porn should you report it? Absolutely, but it shouldn't get the tech off the hook for digging through somebody's files -- they should have to explain in a similar manner to any other citizen reporting a crime why and how they came across the evidence.

Think of it this way, if you broke into somebody's house and reported evidence of a crime you discovered while committing burglary, you're still committing burglary. The only reason somebody should get off for that is if they can pull together a really compelling story showing they had good reason to believe they would find the evidence there and that's got to be a high threshold (similar to the necessity defense).
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Re: Rented computers secretly photographed users having sex
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2012, 03:07:35 AM »
There's a big difference between happening upon some child porn in the normal course of a repair and finding it while going through people's files to find naked pictures, credit card numbers, or anything else you might want. If you happen to be crossing that ethical boundary anyways and you find child porn should you report it? Absolutely, but it shouldn't get the tech off the hook for digging through somebody's files -- they should have to explain in a similar manner to any other citizen reporting a crime why and how they came across the evidence.

Bold part I think is important. I would consider those that do snoop and end up reporting the bad stuff they find being a minority of those who snoop; I imagine a lot of those who do might actually find "bad stuff" but pretend they didn't, and nobody finds out- because if they were to report it it would require admission that they were in fact snooping outside the scope of the task they were supposed to be doing. Those that do report it are more moral; snooping through other things, IMO, is far less reprehensible than abusing children, and those people recognize that; more to the point, two wrongs (the perpetrator's actions plus those of a supposed tech becoming co-conspirator in a sense by not reporting it) don't make a right, either. I think a good point to come away from this is never to think of morality as black and white; it's only shades of grey.

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Think of it this way, if you broke into somebody's house and reported evidence of a crime you discovered while committing burglary, you're still committing burglary.
I don't feel it's the same. First off, what the techs are doing is not illegal at all. That's sort of the important thing to remember; there is nothing illegal about the techs looking through a computer they have in their charge any more than it would be illegal for your wife/husband to do so, or for a friend to do so, etcetera- but it isn't. The closest thing would be if they broke into the house, in which case they would be guilty of breaking and entering, but there is no crime for rifling through another persons things; the results from such a action are purely between the riffler and the person being... uh.. rlffled, assuming the latter even discovers the action in the first place.

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The only reason somebody should get off for that is if they can pull together a really compelling story showing they had good reason to believe they would find the evidence there and that's got to be a high threshold (similar to the necessity defense).
Thing is, as noted above, in those sorts of places, you've basically got two types of techs. Those that snoop through other peoples things and are willing to fess up and admit they did so when they find something illegal, and those that snoop through other peoples things and never say a word about it no matter what they find. There is an arguable minority that don't look through the files on a computer but these are a significant minority, especially at big box stores. Sometimes even the managers or owners get involved in it, too. Anyway, my point is that the people that report what they find if they find something illegal are less of a worry than the ones that don't. and the only people "getting away" with anything IMO are the ones that refuse to report when they find illegal things and just pretend everything is fine to cover their own *censored*.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.